.NET and J2EE #1

I hinted that this was coming a few blog posts ago, so before we get started, let me say one thing: I am not here to get all religious between platforms or to start any holy wars. I will try to provide an objective perspective with all this. So for those of you who plan on getting all riled up and start comment-spamming me, be warned: any offensive remarks will be promptly removed. Hey, it's my blog. Also, I will come clean up front and say that most of my time is spent with Microsoft technologies (.NET in particular), but I do have a little Java programming experience and have been through intense, deep J2EE training from Trans-World Resources, via The Middleware Company (which I must say was the best training I had ever been to). My point is that I have spent at least some time on both sides of the world. Not as much as Ted Neward, but hey, who has? One last thing before we get started: I am bound to say something wrong on this topic, so if/when I do, feel free to correct me, but please do it in the right manner.

Anyway, this whole idea started when my pal Suresh sent me a link to 101 Reasons Why Java is Better than .NET (Reloaded). Of course, seeing the title I had to check it out. I expected one of two things: either a tongue-in-cheek article on platform comparison or a Java developer/community bashing Microsoft. And sad to say it was the latter.

It's certainly an interesting list with interesting perspectives (go through some of the comments). My immediate beef with it is the title is wrong. Shouldn't it be “101 Reasons Why J2EE is Better than .NET”? I mean, Java is just a programming language, it's not the platform. Yes, the platform was built on and for Java, but let's get it straight please. All too often people swap out Java for J2EE and vise-versa. Stop doing that (and you in the Java community should know better).

So going down the list, I'm going to pick on a couple:

#5 - If surveys do show Java is still the preferred platform for building web services, could you at least link to the surveys?

#6 - I don't think ASP.NET is poorly designed. If it was, wouldn't that make JavaServer Faces and Tiles also poorly designed? After all, those are the equivalent of ASP.NET WebForms and Controls, respectively.

#7 - This is true, but SQL Server “Yukon” will change that.

#8 - Nobody knows how to write good .NET applications. Hmmm. Do they mean other than Microsoft? Is there some proof in this? Is there a list somewhere of .NET applications that just sucked? Again, please point us to some of those cases, or at least give anecdotal evidence.

#23 - I don't doubt that there are very good coding tools for Java, but the VS.NET IDE rocks. I'm just now beginning to use Eclipse, so I'll probably post more on that later.

I could probably comment on each item in the list, but I'll save those for future posts. For now, enjoy the list and feel free to add your own input where appropriate.

Print | posted on Sunday, May 23, 2004 9:48 PM

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# re: .NET and J2EE #1

left by Darrell at 5/24/2004 3:25 PM
If Java really was better than .NET, my employer would not consider it extremely important to grow the Microsoft service offering. Money talks, bullsh** types up "101" lists.

# re: .NET and J2EE #1

left by Dave at 5/24/2004 8:11 PM
I hear ya, Darrell. It would be nice if some of these people would just try to be a little more open minded. I see it all the time where a pro-Microsoft person gives kudos to something in J2EE, but it's very rare to find the flip side of that. Sad.

# re: .NET and J2EE #1

left by Alex Lowe at 5/25/2004 6:10 AM
This (http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/7/5/c75837dc-90bb-44d8-ae70-db7bcc5980b9/TheStateofTechnologyAdoption.pdf) is pretty telling about what platform the enterprise plans to use in 2004. The choice quote though is, "It's unrealistic for firms to put all new development on a single platform. Instead, firms should understand the main differences between the platforms, segment their applications into specific domains, and select the appropriate platform for each domain." I spend time in the enterprise with customers everyday and those who are betting on a single vendor for everything are often the least satisfied so this rings lound to me.

Regarding the inability to write .NET applications, someone should really tell all of these companes (http://www.microsoft.com/resources/casestudies/FindCaseStudyResults.aspx?SearchTypeId=0&TecTaxID=1226&CompSize=A). Of course, those case studies only represent the companies that were willing to take the extra time to actually do a case study (which is a small percentage of the folks using .NET to build applications everyday).

I think this article (http://www.sys-con.com/story/print.cfm?storyid=44270) has a fairly unbiased description of where the IDE fits into the evaluation - productivity. The author covers why one might be more productive in VS.NET versus the various J2EE IDEs.

One of the things that I've learned (mostly from hardware vendors like HP) in the enterprise is that many of the J2EE application servers run better on Windows than they do on a *nix platform. In fact, one the best performance examples that BEA has is their J2EE application server running on Windows 2003 making use of SQL Server 2000 as the database server (http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=bea_hp_record_04.htm&FP=/content/products/server/learn/). I was not surprised after having had J2EE consultants tell me this was the case for the last year. Interesting reading anyway.

My favorite thing about Eclipse would be refactoring! I'm glad we have refactoring coming in Visual Studio 2005. BEA latest development software is by far the best on the market in the J2EE space (from an ease of use standpoint). BEA is targeting the VB environment and they've produced some pretty easy to use stuff of late.

# re: .NET and J2EE #1

left by Dave at 5/25/2004 7:26 AM
Alex - Thanks for the links. I'll be checking those out (and probably posting about them). Funny you mention J2EE app servers running better on Wintel than on *nix. My company is going to be doing the same thing with their J2EE deployments.

# re: .NET and J2EE #1

left by Sonu at 6/1/2005 7:17 AM
I would like you point you to this http://java.sun.com/performance/reference/whitepapers/WS_Test-1_0.pdf web site where you can compare the performance of .Net vs J2EE in webservices....
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